Bath
Bath v Harlequins - A Christmas Cracker
Ollie
By Rokobilly
December 19 2023
It will be eight months and a day since we last played Quins. Many Bath fans will have fond memories of that day out at Twickenham.
We scored six tries in a helter-skelter match played at catch-your-breath speed. It was our third bonus point win in a row and the green shoots of hope were definitely there to be seen..April sunshine felt very good after another bleak winter.
The Telegraph's match report was similarly optimistic. "Bath will be a side to be reckoned with next season" ran the headline, the copy noting that "Finn Russell will be licking his lips at joining up with Johann van Graan's Bath rebuild."
Eleven games into that next season and much of that promise has been delivered. 8 of 11 games have been won. All 3 defeats could have gone our way at the end, while only Bristol and Cardiff have taken losing bonus points from our wins.
With almost half the season gone, that pre season hope is gradually turning into expectation. Bath for the first time in years are having to cope with the tag of being favourites and delivering on promise.
Doing so will need the whole squad. Our first XV is the best we've had in almost a decade, maybe longer. They can't, however, play every minute of every game. JVG has rotated sensibly and well so far this season but the choices are becoming harder.
Eight days after Quins we go to Welford Road. Then Gloucester - buoyed last week by a resurgent returning Zach Mercer - are in town looking for their bragging rights. After that it is Racing, Toulouse and Bristol on successive weekends.
Having won both European matches in some style, JVG will be loathed to blow the chance of some knockout rugby at The Rec so perhaps Tigers away becomes a rest and rotate week.
I certainly hope we are strong on Saturday, although I do expect some changes. With Sale hosting Saracens, we could be the star atop the Premiership's Christmas Tree.
That 35-45 win at Twickenham back in April came to mind easily this week after our adventures across the Severn Bridge last weekend. Both games were basketball-esque with the teams seemingly scoring at will. End to end stuff in the old football parlance. Both matches were played on hard, fast pitches that suited attack minded players.
In both matches, we were cut to ribbons at times. And those defensive holes will, I am sure have been the topic of much discussion at Farleigh House this week. None of the players will need telling what Marcus Smith can do if we repeat the errors this weekend.
Quins' own form has been mixed this year. Their finest league performance was a demolition job at home to Sale, but the wheels came off when Sarries and Toulouse stooped to conquer. Away from home theu have already won at Bristol, Tigers and Racing. Overall, it is a B+ on the half term report. Just a point behind us in the table, they too will want to be top on Christmas Day.
Apart from Smith, expect to see some familiar faces on Saturday. Dombrandt always seems to score against Bath. Jack Walker has points to prove, not least to Steve Borthwick. Danny Care, benched last week in Europe, may return. Esterhuizen (presumably fully recovered from that Nathan Hughes tackle a couple of years back) will provide a test in midfield. Caden Murley and Tyrone Green are among the league's finest finishers.
And just as we have Hill, Lawrence, Stooke and Barbeary, Quins have also recruited well from the wreckage of last season: Joe Launchbury, Nick David, Will Joseph and Chandler Cunningham-South are all fine players.
All that said - and as pointed out elsewhere on COML - Quins' big money spinning game at Twickenham follows on New Year's Eve. Perhaps they will rest and rotate this weekend?
Given the heaviness of a Rec pitch in late December, another ten try festival of running rugby may be unlikely despite the talent on show. The consequences of losing are also becoming greater as the season moves on apace. It may be a tight affair.
If so, the return of Quinn Roux could boost Bath's chances, and a rested Sam Underhill will be raring to go. Jaco Coetzee will be itching to carry on his impressive form too.
In the backs, Max Ojomoh is due a return, perhaps in place of Redpath. With kicking likely to be important, we might also see Matt Gallagher at 15. The back up half backs might need to wait another week for their chance to shine.
Last December, we lost by 6 to Quins in a low scoring game at The Rec as we blew chance after chance. The game ended with two Harlequins in the bin and a Bath rolling maul held up over the line. This is our chance to show just how far we have come since then. COYB!
A possible XV:
Gallagher, Muir, Lawrence, Ojomoh, Cokanasiga, Russell, Spencer. Obano, Dunn, du Toit, Roux, Stooke, Reid, Underhill, Coetzee.
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Discussion started by Comeonmylovers.co.uk (IP Logged), 19/12/2023 22:14
19/12/2023 22:14
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Edited 3 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:26:12:47:41 by CoochieCoo.
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Good article rokobilly.
Like your team aswell
I would rotate some of the first xv and give a few a complete rest. I expect quins to rotate before their big match and they have picked up injuries in last 2 weeks.
Gusty day so though I prefer tdg as a player may be one for Gallagher.
Gallagher, coko, lawrence, mojo, muir, finn, spencer
Schoeman, dunn, stuart, roux, stooke, coetzee, underhill, barbeary.
Bench: du toit, annett, griffin, gjvv, cloete, schreuder, bailey, butt
Give beno, ewels, reid , cam a week off. They have played a lot of rugby this season. Still think we can beat quins with that squad and bring those guys back fresh for leic with the aim of getting at least a lbp.
Like your team aswell
I would rotate some of the first xv and give a few a complete rest. I expect quins to rotate before their big match and they have picked up injuries in last 2 weeks.
Gusty day so though I prefer tdg as a player may be one for Gallagher.
Gallagher, coko, lawrence, mojo, muir, finn, spencer
Schoeman, dunn, stuart, roux, stooke, coetzee, underhill, barbeary.
Bench: du toit, annett, griffin, gjvv, cloete, schreuder, bailey, butt
Give beno, ewels, reid , cam a week off. They have played a lot of rugby this season. Still think we can beat quins with that squad and bring those guys back fresh for leic with the aim of getting at least a lbp.
Great write up as usual, I would go for something such as:
Gallagher, Muir, Lawrence, Mojo/Redpath, Joe C, Russell, Spencer, Beno, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels, Roux, Underhill, Barbery, Reid - Annett, Schoeman, Du Toit, Stooke, GVV, Coetzee, Schreuder, Bailey.
Think Cardiff match showed the value of the power off the bench and I just have a feeling they will start Stuart against Marler and bring Du Toit and Coetzee with all their power off the bench.
Gallagher, Muir, Lawrence, Mojo/Redpath, Joe C, Russell, Spencer, Beno, Dunn, Stuart, Ewels, Roux, Underhill, Barbery, Reid - Annett, Schoeman, Du Toit, Stooke, GVV, Coetzee, Schreuder, Bailey.
Think Cardiff match showed the value of the power off the bench and I just have a feeling they will start Stuart against Marler and bring Du Toit and Coetzee with all their power off the bench.
Roux hasn't started for quite a few weeks - I'd put Stooky in to start with Roux off the bench
Already excited and reading your match preview has only increased this.....
Have all the family home and I know my two sons are really looking forward to this with my 2 year old grand daughter attending her first match in her little, but quite big for her, Bath shirt ! (Indulgent grandfather!!)
Have all the family home and I know my two sons are really looking forward to this with my 2 year old grand daughter attending her first match in her little, but quite big for her, Bath shirt ! (Indulgent grandfather!!)
May well not come to fruition but I think this could be the game Bailey starts. With or without Quins full strength.
As others I have the Tigers game penned at anything is a bonus with rotation. If Russell needs a rest at some point I think this would be the week.
I like the idea of Bailey in a full stacked team, to spur him on and let him run the game. With Russell then playing the tigers game like he did sale with the more rotated team. Give us the better chance at winning both. We don’t lose anything kicking wise now
Coetzee or Stooke at 6 would be my call with Reid given the rest fully. Exciting times
As others I have the Tigers game penned at anything is a bonus with rotation. If Russell needs a rest at some point I think this would be the week.
I like the idea of Bailey in a full stacked team, to spur him on and let him run the game. With Russell then playing the tigers game like he did sale with the more rotated team. Give us the better chance at winning both. We don’t lose anything kicking wise now
Coetzee or Stooke at 6 would be my call with Reid given the rest fully. Exciting times
Can't see Quins playing anything but a full strength team so I'm hoping we do likewise.
Luke Pearce officiating - I think personally with the retirement of Wayne Barnes he is the No 1 England official now - Matt Carley appears to have regressed somewhat which is a real shame having really improved IMHO until the World Cup.
Quote:Ali1969
Luke Pearce officiating - I think personally with the retirement of Wayne Barnes he is the No 1 England official now - Matt Carley appears to have regressed somewhat which is a real shame having really improved IMHO until the World Cup.
Agreed, he is probably the best we have now and really doesn't stand for any nonsense.
The only downside with Pearce for this game specifically is he refs a very quick game and calls use it quicker than anyone at rucks. In general I'm extremely in favour of this, against Quins specifically it definitely suits them.
Quote:hasta
The only downside with Pearce for this game specifically is he refs a very quick game and calls use it quicker than anyone at rucks. In general I'm extremely in favour of this, against Quins specifically it definitely suits them.
Not sure it really does. Quins tend to play a high speed game irrespective of what the ref calls.
Spencer and Russell are quite happy with quick ball. It probably means we need a balanced back row at least for the first 60 rather than the power game we had when Jaco came on against Cardiff
Yes, but Quins are best practiced for it. We're certainly better at it than we were last year, but not as good as Quins are and we'll be pushed more into a game style that tends to be broken and suit them.
Oddschecker has Bath favourites (1/2ish) v Quins (2/1ish). This may change when the teams are announced but we should be favourites at home...
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Adopted players: 24/25 J Bayliss; [24] O Lawrence; [23] J Cokanasiga; [22] M Green; [21] A Watson; [20] T Faletau; [19] M V Vuuren; [18] T Faletau; [17] D Denton; [16] H. Agulla; [15] L Houston; [14] W Spencer; [13] F. Louw
Family . Community . Nation - [sdp.org.uk]
My mind's been going places without me lately - Bushfire The B52's
Thinking about some very good points made - it made me think that one of our greatest improvements is that we now have the ability and belief to dictate games.
In the past we have allowed the likes of Sarries, Tigers and Quins to come to our home and dictate the pace and direction of the game and that in turn has an effect on the officials - the end of last season and so much more this season which has coincided with the arrival of Finn we are now dictating the pace and direction of the game.
Finn and Ben are great game managers - which is what you want from your half backs - but it can only happen if the forwards do their jobs the front 5 who have gained parity if not dominance this season and the back row who can gain those hard years and keep the defenders honest.
For once in a long time it is nice to sit in my office and type this thinking that opposition coaches are genuinely thinking how do we stop BATH.
Really excited for the game this Saturday with the family and everything crossed for a dominant performance and a win. Come on Bath.
In the past we have allowed the likes of Sarries, Tigers and Quins to come to our home and dictate the pace and direction of the game and that in turn has an effect on the officials - the end of last season and so much more this season which has coincided with the arrival of Finn we are now dictating the pace and direction of the game.
Finn and Ben are great game managers - which is what you want from your half backs - but it can only happen if the forwards do their jobs the front 5 who have gained parity if not dominance this season and the back row who can gain those hard years and keep the defenders honest.
For once in a long time it is nice to sit in my office and type this thinking that opposition coaches are genuinely thinking how do we stop BATH.
Really excited for the game this Saturday with the family and everything crossed for a dominant performance and a win. Come on Bath.
Clearly Bath will pose Quins some questions in attack, which hasn’t been the case for some years.
My concern is the way Quins attack direct through the middle with Esterhuizen and Dombrandt, which is where our defence is weak.
Also I’m hoping our lineout issues will improve.
My concern is the way Quins attack direct through the middle with Esterhuizen and Dombrandt, which is where our defence is weak.
Also I’m hoping our lineout issues will improve.
Think Underhill will relish tracking Dombrandt for when he takes those angled runs off Care or Smith.
Why on earth would we not pick our absolute best squad.
Full house at the Rec 2 days before Christmas send the Bath faithful home with a win
Full house at the Rec 2 days before Christmas send the Bath faithful home with a win
Best squad is v open to interpretation isn't it.
Your cup final 23 isn't always the best to do a specific job in a specific fixture at a specific time.
If a player is on his knees through workload then jvg and team will know that and we won't. If beno gets rested people will moan but it will be the right decision realistically by the people who know best.
They will be plotting their way through the season /blocks of games to try and maximise the points return. I naively think the aim should be to win the next 4 games.
I still personally would take a few out the firing line this week if needed to maximise our chances of achieving that. Very relaxed about trusting the squad, as is jvg seemingly.
My only gripe on selection this season was 12 changes against sale and coming up just short of 4 pts and getting only 1. Always felt we were a couple of top players on the bench light to win it. Saying that we have won every game since I think so perhaps they got it right.
Your cup final 23 isn't always the best to do a specific job in a specific fixture at a specific time.
If a player is on his knees through workload then jvg and team will know that and we won't. If beno gets rested people will moan but it will be the right decision realistically by the people who know best.
They will be plotting their way through the season /blocks of games to try and maximise the points return. I naively think the aim should be to win the next 4 games.
I still personally would take a few out the firing line this week if needed to maximise our chances of achieving that. Very relaxed about trusting the squad, as is jvg seemingly.
My only gripe on selection this season was 12 changes against sale and coming up just short of 4 pts and getting only 1. Always felt we were a couple of top players on the bench light to win it. Saying that we have won every game since I think so perhaps they got it right.
Quote:charlieboa
My only gripe on selection this season was 12 changes against sale and coming up just short of 4 pts and getting only 1. Always felt we were a couple of top players on the bench light to win it. Saying that we have won every game since I think so perhaps they got it right.
I also think its a natural assumption to think, say two better players on he bench might have won it but you have no idea how the game might have changed. Maybe Sale would have been less complacent? maybe the "better" players wouldn't have exerted themselves as much as those trying to make their case for more regular inclusion, etc
From the outside JVG and team (especially S&C) seem to be doing a great job.
Of course it's guesswork OM with lots of intangible variables but generally having one of beno or stuart and one of underhill or alfie coming off the bench is going to strengthen you.
Look at the impact jaco had off the bench at the weekend.
As I say getting a LBP and then winning our next block of games suggests they maybe got it right overall- just frustrating to get so close to the win.
Look at the impact jaco had off the bench at the weekend.
As I say getting a LBP and then winning our next block of games suggests they maybe got it right overall- just frustrating to get so close to the win.
Quote:OldMarovian
Yup, understand that sentiment charlie.
Sale vs sarries looks a decent match up tomorrow on paper!
Interesting discussion around best XV or best XXIII. Agree that 'horses for courses' is the only option and you can't play the 'cup final XV' every week, especially in this block of fixtures. Basically, only JvG knows, as he's the one with a) the long term plan and b) eyes on training every day. My sentiment, however, for this one, as BSJ says above, would be the build on the positive momentum and pick the 'cup final XV' and go all out to get 5 points and a big win. No better advert for the new Rec than the old Rec roaring and packed to the rafters in late December. Must make the city a fortune.
The thing that is yet again striking, when reading the discussions above, is the luxury we have this season of being so injury-free. It is remarkable and allows us to debate whether Alfie or Jaco start, if Stuart is a better bench option than TdT, if Cam or Mojo better suit at home v Quins. At this point in previous seasons, it was pretty much last man standing with some sub par options (no disrespect) and/or kids on the bench. Whatever XXIII JvG picks, it'll be high quality and hugely competitive. Said it many times before, but that feels to me like the most important part of the JvG makeover.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
The thing that is yet again striking, when reading the discussions above, is the luxury we have this season of being so injury-free. It is remarkable and allows us to debate whether Alfie or Jaco start, if Stuart is a better bench option than TdT, if Cam or Mojo better suit at home v Quins. At this point in previous seasons, it was pretty much last man standing with some sub par options (no disrespect) and/or kids on the bench. Whatever XXIII JvG picks, it'll be high quality and hugely competitive. Said it many times before, but that feels to me like the most important part of the JvG makeover.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:dr.bath1865
My sentiment, however, for this one, as BSJ says above, would be the build on the positive momentum and pick the 'cup final XV' and go all out to get 5 points and a big win. No better advert for the new Rec than the old Rec roaring and packed to the rafters in late December. Must make the city a fortune.
The thing that is yet again striking, when reading the discussions above, is the luxury we have this season of being so injury-free. It is remarkable and allows us to debate whether Alfie or Jaco start, if Stuart is a better bench option than TdT, if Cam or Mojo better suit at home v Quins. At this point in previous seasons, it was pretty much last man standing with some sub par options (no disrespect) and/or kids on the bench. Whatever XXIII JvG picks, it'll be high quality and hugely competitive. Said it many times before, but that feels to me like the most important part of the JvG makeover.
I think the main reason for rotating abit and not being full strength is the fact that we are able to win without it now. Quins whilst they had a good win against racing have been very up and down.
We have got to the level now where You could rest Beno completely and then still have 1. TDT 17. Schoeman 3. Stuart 18. Griffin. Likewise you can rest Reid and still have Coetzee or Richards or Stooke play 6. This is a very long season and the longer picture needs to be taken into account.
One player who hasn’t probably had a mention but should be back for selection is Bayliss. The perfect game for him ?
MOTM last time round
Quote:Woodpecker
Wow its on TNT again!
Don't think it was in the original schedule so seems someone with some decision making powers woke up
Is bayliss available now then hk890?
Didn't jvg say a while back he should be fit by end of the block but no idea what he meant...last prem game before Europe, end of Europe fortnight!? Or end of this whole block of back to back week to week games!?
Hoping he is fit now and defo an opp to get him back involved over the next couple of fixtures.
Didn't jvg say a while back he should be fit by end of the block but no idea what he meant...last prem game before Europe, end of Europe fortnight!? Or end of this whole block of back to back week to week games!?
Hoping he is fit now and defo an opp to get him back involved over the next couple of fixtures.
Quote:charlieboa
Is bayliss available now then hk890?
Didn't jvg say a while back he should be fit by end of the block but no idea what he meant...last prem game before Europe, end of Europe fortnight!? Or end of this whole block of back to back week to week games!?
Hoping he is fit now and defo an opp to get him back involved over the next couple of fixtures.
Originally stated for around January, I had thought he was back in training. The end of the block point is a good point not sure what it meant totally.
Guess we are still lucky that even if he’s ready he doesn’t need to be rushed. Considering right now on form he wouldn’t make the 23. Don’t imagine we will see Richards as Cambridge have a crunch game. Expect to see 6/2 again with double locks.
As you say no need to rush it , but on flipside if he is ready be good to get a bit of game time into him.
Not normally a fan of 6:2 but understand the need to protect the front 5 in particular with the games coming thick and fast.
Not normally a fan of 6:2 but understand the need to protect the front 5 in particular with the games coming thick and fast.
JVG has stated and proved he will not rush long term injured players back into the squad/team (Alfie Barbeary, Quinn Roux etc), he is very much about player welfare and as Rory Murray stated having a boss who does not rush injured players back reduces the risk of re-injury or further injury. Given that I cannot see Josh or Ted being available until January or even post 6 Nations.
Agree, no need to rush them- false economy and we have loads of good options .
Just not sure where josh is in his rehab- final stages I think so sure he is desperate to get back out there.
Just not sure where josh is in his rehab- final stages I think so sure he is desperate to get back out there.
Quote:charlieboa
Agree, no need to rush them- false economy and we have loads of good options .
Just not sure where josh is in his rehab- final stages I think so sure he is desperate to get back out there.
His injury timeline puts him as back in training maybe not full but possibly. I would surprised to not see him in the next 2 weeks maybe even as a travelling reserve.
Quote:HK890Quote:charlieboa
Agree, no need to rush them- false economy and we have loads of good options .
Just not sure where josh is in his rehab- final stages I think so sure he is desperate to get back out there.
His injury timeline puts him as back in training maybe not full but possibly. I would surprised to not see him in the next 2 weeks maybe even as a travelling reserve.
Good shout, guys coming back from long term injuries will often warm up with the squad on match day to get them back in swing of things.
Be a nice surprise to see him tomorrow out on the pitch (but prssumably not in the 23)
Will leave others to post squad but I have been a big advocate of a handful or so changes week to week to freshen things up.
4 changes from ulster to Cardiff. 5 changes from Cardiff to quins.
Big fan of the approach personally.
Hope it's less than 12 changes quins to leic but we shall see!
Underhill injured?
4 changes from ulster to Cardiff. 5 changes from Cardiff to quins.
Big fan of the approach personally.
Hope it's less than 12 changes quins to leic but we shall see!
Underhill injured?
Team out
Bath Rugby XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Elliott Stooke, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 GJ van Velze, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Matt Gallagher
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Cameron Redpath
Bath Rugby XV: 1 Beno Obano, 2 Niall Annett, 3 Thomas du Toit, 4 Elliott Stooke, 5 Charlie Ewels, 6 GJ van Velze, 7 Miles Reid, 8 Alfie Barbeary, 9 Ben Spencer, 10 Finn Russell, 11 Will Muir, 12 Max Ojomoh, 13 Ollie Lawrence, 14 Joe Cokanasiga, 15 Matt Gallagher
Replacements: 16 Tom Dunn, 17 Juan Schoeman, 18 Will Stuart, 19 Quinn Roux, 20 Jaco Coetzee, 21 Louis Schreuder, 22 Orlando Bailey, 23 Cameron Redpath
Quote:charlieboa
Will leave others to post squad but I have been a big advocate of a handful or so changes week to week to freshen things up.
4 changes from ulster to Cardiff. 5 changes from Cardiff to quins.
Big fan of the approach personally.
Hope it's less than 12 changes quins to leic but we shall see!
Underhill injured?
I am guessing Underhill is just getting an extended rest maybe he needed to have another week from the World Cup?
Van Velze at 6 a little unexpected but think it’s clear Coeztee’s impact off the bench is massive. Good Quins side so expect a good match. Will boil down to the scrum again I think and on form it’s ours to take.
Quins have gone 6/2 which is interesting not what you’d expect really. Maybe they’ve gone to try and match JVG but he’s had other ideas.
Billy vs Dombrant is going to be a titanic match up.
Billy vs Dombrant is going to be a titanic match up.
Quote:HK890
Quins have gone 6/2 which is interesting not what you’d expect really. Maybe they’ve gone to try and match JVG but he’s had other ideas.
Billy vs Dombrant is going to be a titanic match up.
Quins recent form has been based on a refresh of their pack with Launchberry, Dillon Lewis and Chandler Cunningham-South all looking good, Jack Walker also gets a run out.
Much will be decided up front.
I know I've said it before, but it's worth repeating - I'm loving that JvG is actually rotating our squad, not just talking about it, but only making injury enforced changes.
This week, Dunn, Stuart and Redpath sit on the bench, whilst Underhill gets a 2nd week off.
You could say that McNally and Cloete have been given a week off, but I'd rather think they've been dropped.
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:22:12:39:49 by Quel Carreleur.
This week, Dunn, Stuart and Redpath sit on the bench, whilst Underhill gets a 2nd week off.
You could say that McNally and Cloete have been given a week off, but I'd rather think they've been dropped.
Quote:Billy?HK890
Billy vs Dombrant is going to be a titanic match up.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:22:12:39:49 by Quel Carreleur.
Quote:hasta
Looking at those teams, my response is: phwoar!
Difficult to take seriously comments like that from a guy dressed in purple and yellow!
Similarities to the match 2 years ago at the Rec where Nathan Hughes greatly featured!
Interesting that we’ve gone with four line out options and very little to slow down Quins ruck speed
Two strong squads - Interesting starting with Thomas DT against Marler - It may be a stroke of genius from a true rugby mind in the fact neither has faced each other much - Will Stuart and Marler will have done loads of scrummaging in England Camps and Premiership matches - Joe Marler loves winding up opposition props - hard work when you don't know anything about the other guy and he is part of an all conquering rugby nation - oh yes and he is massive, powerful, strong and very heavy.
I personally think Cadan Murley is a huge miss for Quins - I will never understand how Borthwick overlooked him for the RWC - still a talented backline.
Dry weather forecast at present albeit windy. Hoping we put it together and the boys lead us into Christmas with a huge win. Come on BATH.
I personally think Cadan Murley is a huge miss for Quins - I will never understand how Borthwick overlooked him for the RWC - still a talented backline.
Dry weather forecast at present albeit windy. Hoping we put it together and the boys lead us into Christmas with a huge win. Come on BATH.
Quote:Ali1969
I personally think Cadan Murley is a huge miss for Quins - I will never understand how Borthwick overlooked him for the RWC - still a talented backline.
Perhaps because Steve Borthwick ignores attacking backs and is only interested in defence!
I think you are right Shipwrecked - I honestly think that Cadan Murley is the best around and personally I think he is a much more rounded player with just as much speed than Henry Arundell - Don't think I have seen him have a poor game albeit he is I think 3 years older so who knows what Arundell will be like in 3 years.
Agree QC- also loving the proactive rotation.
Means we can hopefully bring into the starting xv against leic a relatively fresh dunn, stuart, roux, underhill, coetzee, cam, tdg and have a chance in that game aswell.
I think you are right about mcnally and cloete. Maybe they will get a chance at redemption next week!?
Means we can hopefully bring into the starting xv against leic a relatively fresh dunn, stuart, roux, underhill, coetzee, cam, tdg and have a chance in that game aswell.
I think you are right about mcnally and cloete. Maybe they will get a chance at redemption next week!?
I haven't seen the teams for all five games but really pleased to see your fixture, Chiefs/Tigers and Sarries/Sale all seem to have gone full noise. Three excellent fixtures to take us into Christmas.
Nice team. Sorry not to see Sam but a heavy pack, with GJVV at 6, on a heavy pitch, seems like a sensible approach. Interesting Quins look to have done something similar, with Evans on the bench.
Big game for Mojo. Andre the Giant will test him. It's a long-ish shot, but if Mojo stands up in defence and does his thing in attack, given the lack of options for England at 12, he'd put himself in the frame.
We've seen lots of flash stuff in recent weeks, and of course we'll have a go if it's on tomorrow, but I'd go into Christmas ecstatic with a dominant forward display, a couple of rolling maul tries, and a 15-11 win. If Sarries do the business tonight, what fun it would be to be on top on Xmas Day. Having said that, Quins demolished Sale up front the other night, so will be no easy task.
Come on you Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Big game for Mojo. Andre the Giant will test him. It's a long-ish shot, but if Mojo stands up in defence and does his thing in attack, given the lack of options for England at 12, he'd put himself in the frame.
We've seen lots of flash stuff in recent weeks, and of course we'll have a go if it's on tomorrow, but I'd go into Christmas ecstatic with a dominant forward display, a couple of rolling maul tries, and a 15-11 win. If Sarries do the business tonight, what fun it would be to be on top on Xmas Day. Having said that, Quins demolished Sale up front the other night, so will be no easy task.
Come on you Bath!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Quote:HK890
Quins have gone 6/2 which is interesting not what you’d expect really. Maybe they’ve gone to try and match JVG but he’s had other ideas.
Billy vs Dombrant is going to be a titanic match up.
Think you mean Alfie! Not Billy!!!
And yes but there are great match ups all over the pitch. TNT will be salivating at this one
That is a big statement of intent from Quins tho. Many thought they would rest a few stars after the mauling last week and with their Big Match next
A big gamble by them. They win and it sets them up nicely for top 2 and puts us firmly in the chasing pack. Lose with such a strong 23 and they may not have enough in the tank for their must win Big Match
A big gamble by them. They win and it sets them up nicely for top 2 and puts us firmly in the chasing pack. Lose with such a strong 23 and they may not have enough in the tank for their must win Big Match
Quote:OldMarovian
I haven't seen the teams for all five games but really pleased to see your fixture, Chiefs/Tigers and Sarries/Sale all seem to have gone full noise. Three excellent fixtures to take us into Christmas.
Loving the line ups.
Lots of teams dreaming big and going for away wins (inc quins)
Good on them I say
Well Sale and Saracens didn't impress that much tonight leaving Bath with the chance to be Christmas number 1. What a wonderful thought, and that's all it is at the moment, but potentially a extra present for us Bath fans, who would have thought this a year ago.
Looking at it from another point of view we’ve had to work really hard to beat a couple of unfancied teams., not to be disrespectful. We need a tighter more grown up performance tomorrow I feel. Can we deliver, that is the question?
Great interview with Stooky on the club you tube channel. great to have him back. Hilarious character and sure he brings a lot to the squad
[m.youtube.com]
Widcombe Garçon
[m.youtube.com]
Widcombe Garçon
Going to be a heavy pitch and a greasy ball. Doing the basics right and making fewer errors than Quins will be critical.
Really looking forward to this afternoon, only concern for me personally is our lack of a jackler I hope it does not come back to bite us.
Quote:There’s a few in our team today but agree Evans is a threat there.Ali1969
Really looking forward to this afternoon, only concern for me personally is our lack of a jackler I hope it does not come back to bite us.
Not sure the pitch will be heavy it’s been windy for the past couple of days and the new pitch is part desso isn’t it?
Widcombe Garçon
Bit frustrating this - feel we just have edge and probably deserve more of a lead. Hopefully bench and having wind at our backs will see us through second half
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
On the written-off try, I've seen a suggestion that I like - give the captain the choice, try stands, or card & penalty?
A man who cannot change his mind, cannot change anything
RAEBURN SHIELD
RAEBURN SHIELD
Bwah ha ha ha… might not be sporting to laugh at that miss but I couldn’t help it
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
’’Paint the whole world with a rainbow”
Well done Bath. Nice way to go into Christmas top of the table.
Spencer my MotM. Reid and Muir class too.
Think Quins deserved the LBP but "deserve" doesn't get you the result.
Spencer my MotM. Reid and Muir class too.
Think Quins deserved the LBP but "deserve" doesn't get you the result.
Quote:I think its the first time Ive ever chearwd a kick that hit the post.Toast and Marmite
Bwah ha ha ha… might not be sporting to laugh at that miss but I couldn’t help it
I feel kinda bad about doing so, but I still did it
RAEBURN SHIELD
Delightful.
Only really one gripe and that was Spencer standing and watching at three rucks/scrums as we lost possession. Needed to wake up a bit.
Other than that nitpicking, we went toe to toe with a really good team and proved to be better. Happy Christmas!
Only really one gripe and that was Spencer standing and watching at three rucks/scrums as we lost possession. Needed to wake up a bit.
Other than that nitpicking, we went toe to toe with a really good team and proved to be better. Happy Christmas!
Small note for Ewels as well who has become quietly reliable and clearly is benefiting from being in the leadership group but not the captain.
Only gripe I have with Luke Pearce is that he allowed Quins to linger and slow our ball despite all of Spencer’s protests and on the one occasion GVV was on wrong side he quickly pinged him leaving to Walkers try..
Quins are dangerous but always felt we were in control. Annoyed with allowing their last try lazy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:23:17:47:05 by Ali1969.
Quins are dangerous but always felt we were in control. Annoyed with allowing their last try lazy.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:23:17:47:05 by Ali1969.
Great to be top at Christmas with the least tries conceded too. Everyone when interviewed is also very measured. Quins not getting the LBP could be important come the end of the season.
Quote:hasta
Small note for Ewels as well who has become quietly reliable and clearly is benefiting from being in the leadership group but not the captain.
Agree, he has come back a much better player and quietly goes about his business really strongly.
Brilliant squad performance. GJVV was terrific. As was Muir. And JCok. Gallagher so solid. Stooke too, what an engine. Hell, every single one of them. Well done.
Funny thing about Pearce is when I watch as a neutral, I enjoy the fast paced game you get from his style. But when it’s your team, and he’s not really bothering to ref the breakdown, it can be frustrating. He’s consistent, that’s for sure, but I thought Quins made a mess of a lot of our best ball… they likely thought we did the same to them!
Top of the tree. Really hope Bruce is loving it. He’s earned this special and hugely enjoyable period.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Funny thing about Pearce is when I watch as a neutral, I enjoy the fast paced game you get from his style. But when it’s your team, and he’s not really bothering to ref the breakdown, it can be frustrating. He’s consistent, that’s for sure, but I thought Quins made a mess of a lot of our best ball… they likely thought we did the same to them!
Top of the tree. Really hope Bruce is loving it. He’s earned this special and hugely enjoyable period.
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
Well if Ford won the battle of the 10 against Farrell in the dour game last last night then Russell won the battle of the expansive 10s v Smith.
Simply loved the two handed cricket catch over his head from Greens kick to return it and put Smith on the back foot 5 yards from the line.
Managed to rile Smith by challenging for the ball for a quick throw even though it was Quins ball.
Psychologically put Quins in a hole leading to the BP try.
He just does stuff to make you smile.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Simply loved the two handed cricket catch over his head from Greens kick to return it and put Smith on the back foot 5 yards from the line.
Managed to rile Smith by challenging for the ball for a quick throw even though it was Quins ball.
Psychologically put Quins in a hole leading to the BP try.
He just does stuff to make you smile.
Quote:shipwrecked
Well if Ford won the battle of the 10 against Farrell in the dour game last last night then Russell won the battle of the expansive 10s v Smith.
Simply loved the two handed cricket catch over his head from Greens kick to return it and put Smith on the back foot 5 yards from the line.
Managed to rile Smith by challenging for the ball for a quick throw even though it was Quins ball.
Psychologically put Quins in a hole leading to the BP try.
He just does stuff to make you smile.
It wasn't Quins ball, it was a 50:22.
Quote:hastaQuote:shipwrecked
Well if Ford won the battle of the 10 against Farrell in the dour game last last night then Russell won the battle of the expansive 10s v Smith.
Simply loved the two handed cricket catch over his head from Greens kick to return it and put Smith on the back foot 5 yards from the line.
Managed to rile Smith by challenging for the ball for a quick throw even though it was Quins ball.
Psychologically put Quins in a hole leading to the BP try.
He just does stuff to make you smile.
It wasn't Quins ball, it was a 50:22.
Even better, still makes you smile!
That behind the back catch from Spencer was quite something, too.
The only injury was Barbeary by my count - dislocated finger(s) maybe? Shouldn't be anything too serious and Coetzee can handle the extra load for a little while.
I'd love to know how Muir stacks up in a race. He covers so much ground so quickly with those long strides.
The only injury was Barbeary by my count - dislocated finger(s) maybe? Shouldn't be anything too serious and Coetzee can handle the extra load for a little while.
I'd love to know how Muir stacks up in a race. He covers so much ground so quickly with those long strides.
It seems we have got to this place with a balanced squad and coaching set up aided by a reduction in the injury rate that has plagued the club in the last couple of seasons. Add in the confidence and comradeship you can see in the players and the result is a lot of happiness. Thats my Christmas present sorted. Just worth mentioning our penalty count must be way down on last season, the players deserve a lot of credit for that.
Agree if it’s just competition between wingers but SB prefers to select select the likes of Malins, Daly, and Marchant out there.
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
I thought that was a great team performance. Defensively really strong. I actually thought smith shaded the no 10 battle but pretty much all our other players had a better performance than their opposite number. I hope we take a strong enough side to Leicester to get a win. It would be a shame not to back this result up
Quote:Dorset Boy
Amazing that Muir and playing for England never gets mentioned.
I can kind of see why and yet every time I watch him play he's quality. Big, quick and intelligent. What's not to like? Possibly a lack of utility? I'd certainly like to see him in a wider squad.
If Spencer doesn't make the 6Nations squad it will be a genuine travesty.
As a side note Sara Cox refereed the Womens game at the StoneX today and was as impressive and consistent as she has been for the Mens games. The Rec could have done with a better referee today, she would have been ideal.
Quote:JK7
That behind the back catch from Spencer was quite something, too.
The only injury was Barbeary by my count - dislocated finger(s) maybe? Shouldn't be anything too serious and Coetzee can handle the extra load for a little while.
I'd love to know how Muir stacks up in a race. He covers so much ground so quickly with those long strides.
8 day turnaround for alfie or anyone else with knocks to get themselves right. Please pick a 23 jvg that gives us a chance against the team currently in 8th.
As you coetzee will be absolutely fine if needed.
I would love to those 2 in the same xv at some point- wrecking ball central in this form.
Muir should be in the mix for an England place but from a selfish perspective not bothered if he isn't. Would be wasted provably anyway.
Anyone else see Finn give Smith some stick with a fist pump in the face after JCok’s finish in the Teacher’s Stand corner? Not sure if it’s model behaviour I’d wish my son to copy… but you love to see it!
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I think Muir fits the Borthwick idea of a winger quite well. He has to at least be in his thoughts.
Quote:JK7
I think Muir fits the Borthwick idea of a winger quite well. He has to at least be in his thoughts.
When was the last time England picked a winger on the wing other than Mr Lateral!
Quote:JK7
The only injury was Barbeary by my count - dislocated finger(s) maybe? Shouldn't be anything too serious and Coetzee can handle the extra load for a little while.
It looked to me like both Russell and Spencer were each feeling a hamstring before being subbed. Lots of stretching off the ball and the odd grimace towards the bench. Hopefully nothing too serious and I have faith that our medical and coaching team will take appropriate measures to look after them.
Great performance and wonderful to have the Rec buzzing to the max.
Another super team effort but specIAL mentions for 1. Will Muir, my motm 2. Elliott, it’s like he never left, incredible work ethic 3. Alfie, Gets over the gain line every time, he is the authentic 8 that Toby always promised but never quite delivered for bath.
Best moment was in the 2nd half seeing the Quins scrum going backwards at a rate of knots that made me check that they weren’t wearing roller skates.
Brilliant. COYB.
Another super team effort but specIAL mentions for 1. Will Muir, my motm 2. Elliott, it’s like he never left, incredible work ethic 3. Alfie, Gets over the gain line every time, he is the authentic 8 that Toby always promised but never quite delivered for bath.
Best moment was in the 2nd half seeing the Quins scrum going backwards at a rate of knots that made me check that they weren’t wearing roller skates.
Brilliant. COYB.
Two refereeing questions:
1) Why was the try not allowed after Muir's break and Spencer's miracle catch. Care then illegally strips it but why wasn't advantage played?
2) After Finn's 50:22, (missed on commentary but spotted by Hasta) at the end Russell tussles for the ball but Smith holds on. The ball is live so Finn could have taken a throw to himself and scored. Why wasn't Smith penalised, he denied us a scoring opportunity?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
1) Why was the try not allowed after Muir's break and Spencer's miracle catch. Care then illegally strips it but why wasn't advantage played?
2) After Finn's 50:22, (missed on commentary but spotted by Hasta) at the end Russell tussles for the ball but Smith holds on. The ball is live so Finn could have taken a throw to himself and scored. Why wasn't Smith penalised, he denied us a scoring opportunity?
Have to say it is soooo goood to have my bragging rights restored in a rugby mad family of three generations. We have longtime Saints, Quins and oooooer a recent Sarries convert. Incidentally, he will be lucky not to be' excommunicated' and we pray he will see the light (he is only 10).
One Quins supporting son was even in the Corporate section today - he seems to have gone rather quiet since............................... must be heavy traffic on the M4 I suppose!
One Quins supporting son was even in the Corporate section today - he seems to have gone rather quiet since............................... must be heavy traffic on the M4 I suppose!
Thought Luke Pearce as good as always. On the disallowed try I'm guessing (Don't have ref link), but perhaps Spencer knocked on, so no try, but did so due to Care's illegal intervention, so Care penalised. Finn and Smith chatting happily together before and after the game. Just banter and kid psychology during it. Watching with a mate who's a Quins fan and he, rightly imho, was cursing Smith for the number and quality of his kicks, too many of which were down Bath players' throats. Error-strewn game; thought Bath were forcing things first half. Far more controlled second half with some, but fewer unforced errors. Again I was very impressed with the discipline and scrummaging from both sides, with very few re-set screams - a welcome feature of most of our games this season. The line out good too, one TD underthrown dart aside.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:23:22:16:59 by TomReagan.
Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 2023:12:23:22:16:59 by TomReagan.
Quote:shipwrecked
Two refereeing questions:
1) Why was the try not allowed after Muir's break and Spencer's miracle catch. Care then illegally strips it but why wasn't advantage played?
2) After Finn's 50:22, (missed on commentary but spotted by Hasta) at the end Russell tussles for the ball but Smith holds on. The ball is live so Finn could have taken a throw to himself and scored. Why wasn't Smith penalised, he denied us a scoring opportunity?
I think Pearce refereed the game 'sympathetically' as many prefer. He more or less kept to the ebb and flow of the game and kept to the script of the game rather than, occasionally, the letter of the law.
You've listed but also the scrum he penalised Bath after shouting 'use it' and it wasn't used and the one where he cleared CCS of offside but the ball squirted put and then he penalised him.
1) I'm certainly not sure. A rip is not a knock-on. He was grounded and a player retrieving the ball (even legally) doesn't mean the player knocked on. I might be missing something but really not sure.
2) It was a 50:22 and I think Pearce called it but I'm kind of okay on that one. Smith is a long way away and he can't be expected to know where the ball was kicked from or to whom the lineout will be awarded. Why he held on to it rather than throwing it away, I have no idea but I think Quin's loss of composure around that time spurred us on a bit
Quote:dr.bath1865
Anyone else see Finn give Smith some stick with a fist pump in the face after JCok’s finish in the Teacher’s Stand corner? Not sure if it’s model behaviour I’d wish my son to copy… but you love to see it!
Would I encourage that kind of behaviour- probably not.
Have we desperately needed it for several years- probably (much like faz provides for sarries tbf).
People talk alot about Finns relaxed style and nature but absolute drive and commitment to be the best and get one over on the opponent is central to his success.
Quote:BarnoidQuote:JK7
The only injury was Barbeary by my count - dislocated finger(s) maybe? Shouldn't be anything too serious and Coetzee can handle the extra load for a little while.
It looked to me like both Russell and Spencer were each feeling a hamstring before being subbed. Lots of stretching off the ball and the odd grimace towards the bench. Hopefully nothing too serious and I have faith that our medical and coaching team will take appropriate measures to look after them.
Barbeary played on for over 15 mins- bit weird as clearly in a lot of pain and ready made replacement on the bench.
I thought spencer was defo feeling his hammy and think you are right on finn also.
If they are 100% let them go again next week. Any doubts at all then trust the back ups.
Quote:shipwrecked
Two refereeing questions:
1) Why was the try not allowed after Muir's break and Spencer's miracle catch. Care then illegally strips it but why wasn't advantage played?
2) After Finn's 50:22, (missed on commentary but spotted by Hasta) at the end Russell tussles for the ball but Smith holds on. The ball is live so Finn could have taken a throw to himself and scored. Why wasn't Smith penalised, he denied us a scoring opportunity?
1. It was (sadly) a small knock-on on the floor from Spencer after Care dives in.
There was definitely a ruck where Pearce tells Spencer not to milk a pen from CCS but then the ball squirts out and he awards a pen anyway, which I might be a touch disgruntled about if I were a Quins fan.
A few minor gripes re Pearce from both sides (inc one above as you say hasta) but I think he is generally v good.
Some empathy like only calling a not straight throw when it was v crooked, clearly in quins favour and we had jumpers up competing hard.
He helped make an entertaining game I felt.
Some empathy like only calling a not straight throw when it was v crooked, clearly in quins favour and we had jumpers up competing hard.
He helped make an entertaining game I felt.
Just watched the game. A very good, skillful game of windy, wet weather rugby by both sides but I never felt that Quins had enough, in those conditions, to beat us. I think we're likely to meet again at the pointy end of the season so it'll be interesting if there's a different outcome on hard, fast pitches. Nice to see JC4 playing with confidence, Horse back to doing his best impression of Arkle and Elliot Stooke back in the BBW. But...
My MotM - Spenno. Not for the outrageous leger-de-main for the try that wasn't (and that was a travesty of justice) but because, when we needed someone to metaphorically put his foot on the ball, he did it. He's the yin to Finn's yang. With that balance at half back, we might not win the whole comp but we'll be contenders.
Well reffed, too.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
My MotM - Spenno. Not for the outrageous leger-de-main for the try that wasn't (and that was a travesty of justice) but because, when we needed someone to metaphorically put his foot on the ball, he did it. He's the yin to Finn's yang. With that balance at half back, we might not win the whole comp but we'll be contenders.
Well reffed, too.
... IMHO, of course.
Now in Honolulu
The only thing holding us back at the moment is our error rate (which is very high for a team at the top of the table), and lack of continuity with the ball (rarely getting above 2 or 3 phases before losing it). Cut that out and we'd be outstanding and easily put a few more tries past teams most weeks.
Quote:bathonian80
The only thing holding us back at the moment is our error rate (which is very high for a team at the top of the table), and lack of continuity with the ball (rarely getting above 2 or 3 phases before losing it). Cut that out and we'd be outstanding and easily put a few more tries past teams most weeks.
I don't think that anything is holding us back really. We have the highest number of bonus points, the second highest points difference after Exe and very close (at 32) to Sarries (34) and Quins (33) for tries scored. Given that the conditions in a lot of the matches have been poor I'm sure we we will see even more phases and tries on dry tracks.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Quote:shipwrecked
Two refereeing questions:
2) After Finn's 50:22, (missed on commentary but spotted by Hasta) at the end Russell tussles for the ball but Smith holds on. The ball is live so Finn could have taken a throw to himself and scored. Why wasn't Smith penalised, he denied us a scoring opportunity?
SW - 18(3) does not apply as Smith didn't take it into touch.
A player who carries the ball into touch must release the ball immediately so that a quick throw may be taken. Sanction: Penalty.
18(5)b would though:
A quick throw is disallowed and a lineout is awarded to the same team if:
b. The ball had been touched after it went into touch by anyone other than the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch; or
So Finn couldn't have taken it quickly as Smith had touched it after it was out of play.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Thought the game was a bit chaotic with lots of errors from both teams, which was surprising as the weather wasn’t that bad.
Either way Bath always appeared to have sufficient control and that was a really good win. Particularly liked the whole team charging at Smith when he missed the final conversion for the LBP.
Having a decent ref for a change added to the entertainment value of the game.
Will always be annoying at times watching Bath, but JvG has brought the fun and excitement back for fans and I’m really grateful to him for that.
Either way Bath always appeared to have sufficient control and that was a really good win. Particularly liked the whole team charging at Smith when he missed the final conversion for the LBP.
Having a decent ref for a change added to the entertainment value of the game.
Will always be annoying at times watching Bath, but JvG has brought the fun and excitement back for fans and I’m really grateful to him for that.
You can tell how good our Defence is when you barely hear the names of Smith, Estherhuizen, Lynagh and Green.
And how good is Matt Gallagher?! Im getting Matt Perry vibes
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
And how good is Matt Gallagher?! Im getting Matt Perry vibes
Designed in Scotland | Made in the West Country
Quote:charlieboaQuote:BarnoidQuote:JK7
The only injury was Barbeary by my count - dislocated finger(s) maybe? Shouldn't be anything too serious and Coetzee can handle the extra load for a little while.
It looked to me like both Russell and Spencer were each feeling a hamstring before being subbed. Lots of stretching off the ball and the odd grimace towards the bench. Hopefully nothing too serious and I have faith that our medical and coaching team will take appropriate measures to look after them.
Barbeary played on for over 15 mins- bit weird as clearly in a lot of pain and ready made replacement on the bench.
I thought spencer was defo feeling his hammy and think you are right on finn also.
If they are 100% let them go again next week. Any doubts at all then trust the back ups.
High pace match so I’m not surprised. Most likely cramping. All seems to lining up well for a rotation next week. The brilliant thing about our position is guys are coming in and doing jobs where previously they would have come into the team and been under so much scrutiny.
Rest Barbs/Obano/Spencer/Russell for tigers who are in a right spot atm. Lots of things to build on but all very positive stuff
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:shipwrecked
Two refereeing questions:
2) After Finn's 50:22, (missed on commentary but spotted by Hasta) at the end Russell tussles for the ball but Smith holds on. The ball is live so Finn could have taken a throw to himself and scored. Why wasn't Smith penalised, he denied us a scoring opportunity?
SW - 18(3) does not apply as Smith didn't take it into touch.
A player who carries the ball into touch must release the ball immediately so that a quick throw may be taken. Sanction: Penalty.
18(5)b would though:
A quick throw is disallowed and a lineout is awarded to the same team if:
b. The ball had been touched after it went into touch by anyone other than the player throwing in or the player who carried the ball into touch; or
So Finn couldn't have taken it quickly as Smith had touched it after it was out of play.
Thanks Matt, I looked at the Laws cursorily but that is exactly what I needed to understand. I enjoy points of play where one player is thinking 'out of the box' but clearly that wasn't possible in this case.
Exactly. We seem to have 25-30 players who can step up. Dont want wholesale changes next week, but tweaking. As I’ve said previously, I think you can change Ben but not Finn too, so hope there’s a balance with 6-8 of the bench swapping in with 6-8 of the XV.
One massive improvement this season is our fitness (both injury and in game) and our bench. We’ve won the last 4 games (pretty much) in the last quarter, so we’re clearly delivering throughout the 80 but also being able to introduce quality. Completely different to previous seasons when injuries meant we’d be bringing sub standard (no offence meant) or academy guys off the bench at 60 minute, or not at all, so the 1st XV had to play 80 (= injuries, poorer form). Our bench now elevates our performance. Coetzee on for Barbeary the perfect example. Barbeary runs his socks off, carry after carry, then Coetzee comes on and sustains that pressure.
My team for Tigers:
Obano Dunn Stuart Roux Stooke GJVV Underhill Coetzee
Spencer Bailey Muir Butt Redpath Gallagher TDG
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
One massive improvement this season is our fitness (both injury and in game) and our bench. We’ve won the last 4 games (pretty much) in the last quarter, so we’re clearly delivering throughout the 80 but also being able to introduce quality. Completely different to previous seasons when injuries meant we’d be bringing sub standard (no offence meant) or academy guys off the bench at 60 minute, or not at all, so the 1st XV had to play 80 (= injuries, poorer form). Our bench now elevates our performance. Coetzee on for Barbeary the perfect example. Barbeary runs his socks off, carry after carry, then Coetzee comes on and sustains that pressure.
My team for Tigers:
Obano Dunn Stuart Roux Stooke GJVV Underhill Coetzee
Spencer Bailey Muir Butt Redpath Gallagher TDG
2024/25 adoptee: Guy Pepper
I thought GJ van Velze gave a perfect illustration of the positives of rotation. He looked like a player driven to make the most of his chance and had some significant moments in the loose too.
Also, Annett's handling in open play an important contribution to the (non) try by Ojomoh and Joe C's second.
PG
Also, Annett's handling in open play an important contribution to the (non) try by Ojomoh and Joe C's second.
PG
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:bathonian80
The only thing holding us back at the moment is our error rate (which is very high for a team at the top of the table), and lack of continuity with the ball (rarely getting above 2 or 3 phases before losing it). Cut that out and we'd be outstanding and easily put a few more tries past teams most weeks.
I don't think that anything is holding us back really. We have the highest number of bonus points, the second highest points difference after Exe and very close (at 32) to Sarries (34) and Quins (33) for tries scored. Given that the conditions in a lot of the matches have been poor I'm sure we we will see even more phases and tries on dry tracks.
There's plenty holding us back in games, we can be even better than we are. Not sure what the above stats have to do with anything? So we're two tries off Sarries, ok?
A lot of the trouble we run into on the field is self inflicted, rather than the opposition putting us under pressure. Yesterday was a prime example of this.
Enjoyed the game a lot and loving the return of ‘never in doubt’ as an actual feeling, rather than an ironic throw-back reference. Joe C and Ben S stuffing a 2-on-1 down the right wing in the first half was the only real frustration. I wonder how some of those forwards who carried and harried and tackled and generally brutalised themselves and others feel about the MoM award!!!!
Gifting Quins the try at the end was disappointing and I’m sure the coaches will be looking at that to stop it happening again.
Generally though we restricted Quins attack very well, which is encouraging.
Generally though we restricted Quins attack very well, which is encouraging.
Quote:bathonian80
There's plenty holding us back in games,
Yes I got that was your view but I disagree.
Quote:bathonian80
we can be even better than we are.
Yes no team is perfect.
Quote:bathonian80
Not sure what the above stats have to do with anything? So we're two tries off Sarries, ok?
Those are the top 4 try scoring teams in the league this season. Exe are miles ahead, Bath are broadly comparable with 2nd and 3rd. We are scoring a lot of tries. I couldn't see how many we socred at this point last season but I would be willin to bet it's probably half the number?
Quote:bathonian80
A lot of the trouble we run into on the field is self inflicted, rather than the opposition putting us under pressure. Yesterday was a prime example of this.
It was wind and raining, but yes when we signed Finn we knew that we would be entering into some exciting but high risk plays. I actually think that the handling errors are hugely improved and I'm putting this down to front foot ball when compared with previous seasons.
So I understand your point but I don't agree with it, where there have been a few overly optimistic moves I am loving Bath's attack this season - School report A-.
[24/25 adoptee: Francois van Wyk]
Great game
Great day
Great result
1 gripe only, and nothing to do with rugby.......they have taken to closing the "Cold Bar" very soon after a game and then moving everybody out of the stand. By all means close the bar but just let us stay and finish our drinks and then we can wander over to the Swift Half.
Great day
Great result
1 gripe only, and nothing to do with rugby.......they have taken to closing the "Cold Bar" very soon after a game and then moving everybody out of the stand. By all means close the bar but just let us stay and finish our drinks and then we can wander over to the Swift Half.
Quote:BathMatt53Quote:bathonian80
There's plenty holding us back in games,
Yes I got that was your view but I disagree.
Quote:bathonian80
we can be even better than we are.
Yes no team is perfect.
Quote:bathonian80
Not sure what the above stats have to do with anything? So we're two tries off Sarries, ok?
Those are the top 4 try scoring teams in the league this
season. Exe are miles ahead, Bath are broadly comparable with 2nd and 3rd. We are scoring a lot of tries. I couldn't see how many we socred at this point last season but I would be willin to bet it's probably half the number?
Quote:bathonian80
A lot of the trouble we run into on the field is self inflicted, rather than the opposition putting us under pressure. Yesterday was a prime example of this.
It was wind and raining, but yes when we signed Finn we knew that we would be entering into some exciting but high risk plays. I actually think that the handling errors are hugely improved and I'm putting this down to front foot ball when compared with previous seasons.
So I understand your point but I don't agree with it, where there have been a few overly optimistic moves I am loving Bath's attack this season - School report A-.
100% agree SW. This Bath team is light years away from what we have been producing for years. Finding something to criticise is pretty difficult & somewhat churlish in my view.
Quote:bathonian80Quote:BathMatt53Quote:bathonian80
The only thing holding us back at the moment is our error rate (which is very high for a team at the top of the table), and lack of continuity with the ball (rarely getting above 2 or 3 phases before losing it). Cut that out and we'd be outstanding and easily put a few more tries past teams most weeks.
I don't think that anything is holding us back really. We have the highest number of bonus points, the second highest points difference after Exe and very close (at 32) to Sarries (34) and Quins (33) for tries scored. Given that the conditions in a lot of the matches have been poor I'm sure we we will see even more phases and tries on dry tracks.
There's plenty holding us back in games, we can be even better than we are. Not sure what the above stats have to do with anything? So we're two tries off Sarries, ok?
A lot of the trouble we run into on the field is self inflicted, rather than the opposition putting us under pressure. Yesterday was a prime example of this.
Of course we can be better but 'holding us back' and self inflicted problems misses the whole point of our play this season.
We make mistakes because we are trying to create and as a result taking chances. We can play conservatively of course but look how average players are developing.
GJVV looked a proper motivated back row yesterday, Annet's handling in open play was noteworthy, Max O launched a monster kick in defence and Joe C is running with real conviction. These guys all just want to play for the club. I'm happy to see the charge down, or failed off load, it's what Bath are all about.
I feel the biggest change is two-fold.
Bath feel like they have an identity (playing and as a club) again and the players seem happy.
Ofc winning makes it much easier to enjoy your rugby but I think it's a common factor (shared with Chiefs and Saints) in terms doing well at the moment.
Bath feel like they have an identity (playing and as a club) again and the players seem happy.
Ofc winning makes it much easier to enjoy your rugby but I think it's a common factor (shared with Chiefs and Saints) in terms doing well at the moment.
Quote:BathMatt53
Those are the top 4 try scoring teams in the league this season. Exe are miles ahead, Bath are broadly comparable with 2nd and 3rd. We are scoring a lot of tries.
Rather pleasingly:
We've got more TBPs than anyone else in the league.
Only Newcastle have as many LBPs as ourselves - and they've had 3 times as many opportunities.
RAEBURN SHIELD
Quote:shipwrecked
We make mistakes because we are trying to create and as a result taking chances.
Losing consecutive five metre attacking lineouts is not down to us "taking chances", nor is losing the ball in contact, dropping high balls or restarts (Tigers?). Perhaps throwing interceptions but the vast majority of our (at times) sloppiness is unforced and not down to style of play. We left 3 or 4 tries out there against Exeter and nearly the same yesterday.
Results speak for themselves but the potential of this team is frightening and we’re not close to that yet. Which is a good thing. It’s exciting. Cut down the error count, up the ball retention and we’ll win plenty more games with even more points to spare.
Many on the Quins forum blaming Sir Luke for the loss ! 
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
Adopted Player 2018/19 Ross Batty
Adopted Player 2019/20 Jack Davies
Adopted Player 2020/21 Cam Redpath
Adopted Player 2021/22 Darren Atkins
Adopted Player 2022/23 Gabriel Hamer-Webb
Adopted Player 2023/24 Tom Carr-Smith
Adopted Player 2024/25 Max Ojomoh
"AN OUNCE OF ACTION IS WORTH A TON OF THEORY"
FRIEDRICH ENGELS
I noticed on rewatching the highlights that Pearce slightly blocked Annett just long enough to create the hole for Smith's try. Maybe they should thank him that they were even close!
Heard that Tom Stewart will be featuring in the match day squad for tigers. Been at Cov for a good few games. Good chance to hopefully see some people for future seasons get minutes. If some of the core is kept no reason why a younger side can’t go to tigers and win
Quote:hasta
Tom? Or John? [www.bathrugby.com]
My bad auto correct yes John Stewart
Interesting- surprised our 4th choice hooker will be called upon but jvg regularly name checks him as one of our brightest prospects.
If he can learn to hit a donkeys ass with a banjo when it comes to throwing he will become a v v good player.
If he can learn to hit a donkeys ass with a banjo when it comes to throwing he will become a v v good player.
Quote:charlieboa
Interesting- surprised our 4th choice hooker will be called upon but jvg regularly name checks him as one of our brightest prospects.
If he can learn to hit a donkeys ass with a banjo when it comes to throwing he will become a v v good player.
Agree CB converted from back row to hooket, impressive around the pitch but as you say was a bit erratic with his throwing.
But he is acutely aware of that and practiced incessantly, if that’s improved then it’s a win win situation.
Fingers crossed SW.
Hopefully they pick plenty of experience around him to help him through.
Hopefully they pick plenty of experience around him to help him through.
You do wonder with lineout calls if some of them are over ambitious it’s got to be easier throwing short or to a shortened line out than throwing to the middle. With 2 metre jumpers, timing lifts etc.
Jack Walker was poor at throwing but has got a regular place at Quins now. I wonder what changed?
Tyler Offiah
Opinion is based on assumptions, whereas fact is based on observation or research.
Jack Walker was poor at throwing but has got a regular place at Quins now. I wonder what changed?
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